Might be good to add that detail. On top of all this, the All of them involved pilot fatigue, either from This thread is the most recent on Western 2605 on this website, so I thought I would add to it from here so that others might follow a google link and learn something as I have about this crash. Because as with the case of this accident, there really wasnt any wrong with the plane. Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon, Accidents McDonnell Douglas made three more hydraulic system design changes following this accident. Altitude callouts were required and may not have been done, but the ILS wasn't known to be giving erroneous readings but the plane 'half-landed',straight in to 23L, no flare, and half in the grass. This is what I have gathered this far: Some forum posts from 2004-2005 claiming there is "a wealth of material" on google. . (American Airlines 1420) Pilots exhibited more recklessness if they fell behind schedule especially if landing at night and other aircraft landed successfully before them. - paragraph added (unsigned contribution) by 173.120.214.74 at 20:21, 19 December 2019, We can surmise (?) Air traffic control was found him noticeably upset about the trip to Mexico City. Views from inside the cockpit, Aircraft Cabins The CVR is described as sustaining damage in this report, DOT/FAA/PM-86/46 "Aeronautical Decision Making -Cockpit Resource Management": "The voice recorder was recovered from the wreckage; however, the unit had been pierced. We'll just consider it a "personal best" for the airport. 1 / 3. We know that runway 23L was closed to traffic that day, as the runway was being resurfaced. Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior, Cargo Aircraft Following 2605's destruction, it was discovered the ILS system was indeed not acccurate at Mexico City, not because of moving construction equipment obviously, but just off and inaccurate by degrees. (That is, do the sidestep "in advance", out by "Metro Eco".) Flying Magazine is not a credible source. What happened was it was 3am, they were all half asleep on the job and descended into the ground, and one main gear happened to come into contact with a closed runway. " This thread is the most recent on Western 2605 on this website, so I thought I would add to it from here so that others might follow a google link and learn something as I have about this crash. (Ironically the poorly designed cargo door was not immediately changed.). Using the internet archive I was able to locate an archived copy of the airdisaster.com page with the wav file listed (May 2006), but the wav file itself (wal2605.wav) had not been archived. For more information, please see our This video also went out to my Patrons on Patreon 48 hours before going out publicly. According to the research done by Dr. Zeller and McNorton, at the However, Flying Magazine is low credibility content in comparison to the official reports, or at least we would expect it to be. For more information, please see our comments sorted by Best Top New Controversial Q&A Add a Comment . Its a plane which certainly has a divided history. Western Airlines Flight 2605, nicknamed the "Night Owl", was an international scheduled passenger flight from Los Angeles, California, to Mexico City, Mexico. Reichel was described as tired or unfit and he said so at one point in the cockpit. Western Airlines Flight 2605 CVR. Other entries are my opinions as well. The CVR has no indication of strong disagreement. The single weather condition noted most often with flight 2605 is heavy fog. More importantly pilot errors occured. Both military and civil versions, Blimps / Airships Western 2605 was a crash in Mexico City that killed 72 people. LAST WORDS ON FLIGHT: BRACE CHARLES! Views from inside the cockpit, Aircraft Cabins "ALPA's purpose in large part was to exonerate the crew", "ALPA's attempt to identify causes highlights the mobility of that shapeless fluid thing called "blame". From Appendix F Aeronautical Decision Making Cockpit Resource Management: "The right main landing gear was severed and, as it swung aft, it and the destroyed truck wreckage impacted the right inboard flap and aileron which was carried away. Otherwise his assertions aren't serious. crew was fatigued from flying all night, landing at 0542." Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. A periodical featuring an advertisement of the L1011 depicts a perspective just off the nose of the aircraft. - paragraph added at 20:21 + amended at 20:23, 19 December 2019 (unsigned contributions) by 173.120.214.74, - section created at 15:12, 22 December 2019 (unsigned contribution) by 173.120.214.124. the ground at any time. Aircraft flying government officials, Helicopters However it is the content of the article that readers should focus on. So the Government was clearly crashing its own credibility by the 1980s. talked with him just six days before his fatal accident. - paragraph added at 15:33, 22 December 2019 (unsigned contribution) by 173.120.214.124, From the publication DOT/FAA/PM-86/46 "Aeronautical Decision Making - Cockpit Resource Management" investigator observations within 24 hours of the accident: - paragraph added at 22:43 (and amended 22:44 and 22:45 x2), 29 December 2019 (unsigned contribution) by 173.153.184.130, "Main electrical wires to the approach lighting system and VAst for 23 left were observed to be disconnected. Is this necessary? The scenario adds up to a sequence of events that is just I've compiled some thoughts that I've placed under yours that I've read from reports of the accidents, both FAA and ICAO. I replied to one post below that had the time of day wrong concerning the accident. Both military and civil versions, Blimps / Airships Ironically the article is surrounded by more pages of advertisements than its total page count. - paragraph amended at 00:00, 31 December 2019 (unsigned contribution) by 173.120.182.80, He has expressed considerable accusatory disdain for the Mexican authorities and their airport and believes that their share of blame for the disaster has never been properly acknowledged. All times are GMT. Well, yeah, but what if they thought the runway they had visual contact with was the correct runway, 23R? A United States federal law deregulated the airline industry in the United States in 1978, removing the federal government control over such areas as fares, routes, and market entry of new airlines, i.e the Airline Deregulation Act of 1978. Bingo. ", This page was last edited on 3 May 2022, at 01:09. Western Airlines 2605 is a crash that sticks out in my mind as one of the most mysterious accidents of all time, as comparatively little about the accident itself has been released to the public. For additional details, refer to our Privacy Policy. This would certainly result in limited to no control over the aircraft. ground and simultaneously struck i dump truck loaded with gravel. We may share certain information about our users with our advertising and analytics partners. Key details are the same: 23L was closed, 23R was the open runway with a NOTAM many days before. As a consequence, they will not be dealt with; they Something down the lines that one of the runways (sounded like 5R by his description) was closed for maintenance, but ATC told the flight that it was cleared to land on the closed runway (because he was probably used to saying 5R so many times before, as, You can find the CVR tapes on airdisaster.com. Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior, Cargo Aircraft We haven't read this conclusion in any of the reports because no one has access to ILS signaling after the fact, at least in this contributors understanding of what data was recorded in air operations so unfortunately this is speculation based on what happened. Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.61.11.102 (talk) 22:05, 4 January 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply], - section created (unsigned contribution) by 173.120.148.69 at 17:40, 24 November 2019, This section states that the pilot saw the dump truck and then exclaimed "..Jesus Christ". Another piece of frustration. - paragraph amended at 20:36, 1 January 2020 (unsigned contribution) by 73.61.9.109. - paragraph added at 00:00, 31 December 2019 (unsigned contribution) by 173.120.182.80, His credibility has been questioned but he is persuasive. We thank you for your support and hope you'll join the largest aviation community on the web. after the truck collision. Gilbert too was questionable, spending part of the time prior to the flight flying long distance in a private aircraft before getting some sleep. Props and jets from the good old days, Flight Decks Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe, Classic Airliners - paragraph added (unsigned contribution) by 173.153.180.238 at 23:02, 30 November 2019, The left landing gear was off the runway on the left side of runway 23L. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. This is blather with ludicrous speculation. Gilbert had limited or no control over the plane after the collision with the dump truck. I'm trying to find reliable online information to expand on the very short account of Western Airlines flight 2605 which landed on the wrong runway at Mexico City airport on 31 October 1979 and burst into flames after hitting construction equipment. This is not a touchdown this is the aircraft being destroyed. these human factors were identified by the investigation None of these higher authorities performed as required by law and regulation to make sure the buck stopped sooner. You also acknowledge that this forum may be hosted outside your country and you consent to the collection, storage, and processing of your data in the country where this forum is hosted. ATC: "O.K., sir, approach lights are on the runway 23 left, but that runway is closed to traffic.". Western Airlines 2605 is a crash that sticks out in my mind as one of the most mysterious accidents of all time, as comparatively little about the accident itself has been released to the public. Accident, incident and crash related photos, Air to Air In less than 10 years Western Airlines would no longer exist. after initial touch down, when all engines were increased to a little over 100 Gilbert probably screamed "Oh Jesus Christ.turn left!" Is the ALPA report secret or proprietary? Here are some ideas: - paragraph added at 20:21 + amended at 20:22, 19 December 2019 (unsigned contributions) by 173.120.214.74, Lay readers still have no idea what a "more than 2g force landing" means. As a lay person with a recent fascination with this crash, I'm assuming this was the truck collision by the noises on the CVR. Its a red herring to say they landed on the wrong runway. From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm. - Aeronautical Decision Making Cockpit Resource Management. - paragraph added (unsigned contribution) by 173.120.214.74 at 20:21, 19 December 2019, Finally, I have read no analysis of the final statement that one of the 3 man crew says loudly under Gilbert's screams. Was it likely that they didn't have the resources to take safety in to account? On October 31, 1979, the aircraft used for the flight, a McDonnell Douglas DC-10,. Airliners.net is the leading community for discovering and sharing high-quality aviation photography. The Douglas DC10, even before 1979 suffered multiple hull loses and even for a time, held the accolade of being the aircraft involved in the deadliest air disaster to have occurred at that time. - paragraph added (unsigned contribution) by 173.120.214.74 at 20:21, 19 December 2019, Gilbert probably knows (his hands on the yoke?) Props and jets from the good old days, Flight Decks (Right?) The US and Mexico had just completed an involved, complex deal for Mexico to supply natural gas to the US. TNVC/NGI Giveaway: 15 winners with over $7000 worth of prizes!! Plenty of people look back on the aircraft with fondness as an iconic piece of 20th century aviation. It ought to be (if at all possible). Interestingly Gilbert had specified he didn't want to fly with Reichel and Walsh but was apparently told to fly with them anyway for one last time which of course turned out to be the last time he would ever fly. The CVR has been widely available for years. for about 400 feet on the main landing gear. Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. check out the. This explanation is not addressed by our article as it stands. SquisherDa (talk) 10:16, 24 October 2019 (UTC)Reply[reply], And, thinking of sources - do we have the CVR? (any of them?) Our large helicopter section. to heavy construction in progress, which may have induced the Captain to vary The sites we usually use for research won't say more than the above. The hydraulic system may have been destroyed. surface altitude of over 7,000 feet. Aircraft flying government officials, Helicopters mined by the investigation board. Do we know this is correct? seems to say the following: " We're (He's?) Is it not discussed in the reliable sources? that just after Reichel's calm call to go around the aircraft collided with the dump truck. Is the earlier contributer, above, right tht there was disagreement in the cockpit? By clicking "I AGREE" below, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our personal data processing and cookie practices as described therein. ", "The assignment of responsibility, upon which law and regulation depend, requires that the buck stop sooner rather than later. that he owned a T-6 and flew for fun, made such a mistake? Flight 2605 remains the deadliest air accident to have occurred in Mexico City. Information wanted on Western Airlines flight 2605. WA 2605, A 35 AOS DEL PEOR ACCIDENTE AREO EN LA CIUDAD DE MXICO Hopefully this accident is featured on one of the future Air Crash Investigation episodes on Discovery channel. Valable sur un trajet avec TER entre Grenoble et une gare de la rgion au-del de Grenoble-Alpes Mtropole. long work days or from shift changes. It has been said that the crew was in a strong disagreement, and that the pilot continued the landing in spite of first officer strong disagreement. I don't know how this can be verified but perhaps it is correct. - paragraph added (unsigned contribution) by 173.153.180.238 at 23:37, 30 November + amended (unsigned contribution) by 173.153.15.41 at 01:33, 1 December 2019, In order to have a satisfactory answer to this question the first crashing sound in the cockpit needs to be definitively either the touchdown of the left wheels or a collision with the truck. Privacy Policy. - para break moved, + para amended, by 173.120.246.108 (unsigned contribution), at 20:30, 25 December 2019, - section created at 22:08, 25 December 2019 (unsigned contribution) by 173.120.246.108. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. There's no evidence any of the pilots were disciplined by Western Airlines. Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR, Military Aircraft Western Airlines Flight 2605 was an international scheduled passenger flight from Los Angeles to Mexico City. Wikipedia:WikiProject Disaster management, "In continuing toward 23L below [decision height, 600ft aal], by definition the crew was deviating from their cleared approach", "stayed on the correct flight path to Runway 23 Right for most of the time between the outer marker "Metro Eco" and [the] Airport, and only deviated to the runway closed to traffic (23 Left) when at a height of (600 feet) above the ground during .. final approach", https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a205115.pdf, https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Western_Airlines_Flight_2605&oldid=1085896060, B-Class United States articles of Low-importance, High-importance Disaster management articles, Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License 3.0. He considers this to be the collision with the truck and the right landing gear, not the touchdown. By logging into your account, you agree to our. Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon, Accidents Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft, Special Paint Schemes We'll never know because of the damage to the CVR: "The possibility exists that the callouts were made but erased in that portion of the CVR tape; however, it is highly unlikely that this was accomplished. Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries, Airport Overviews accident had to be one of human factors. "I saw a witch, a werewolf and a goblin" - Valenciana describing what he saw after climbing out of the mangled wreckage of a DC-10 in 1979. - paragraph added at 00:00, 31 December 2019 (unsigned contribution) by 173.120.182.80. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. Flight 2605 didn't just land on the wrong runway, it landed in the grass to the left of the runway and the ILS system could be why because no one was watching data gauges (dials?) While searching for the Western Airlines 2605, Mexico City, 1979 accident I discovered that there is nothing at all on the web. He expressed serious concern about the approach to the air Audio recording of Western Airlines Flight 2605 CVR. 20 % d'conomis par rapport l'achat spar des abonnements. Most reports I've read seem to state that Pilot Gilbert saw the truck. Western Airlines Flight 2605 was an international scheduled passenger flight from Los Angeles to Mexico City. (?) on this tragedy: I think there's a CVR on Airdisaster.com. Most of them are weak premise. I have read nothing that suggests there was a disagreement in the cockpit as they prepared for landing. board. Western Airlines 2605 is a crash that sticks out in my mind as one of the most mysterious accidents of all time, as comparatively little about the accident itself has been released to the public.
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