Previously only offered to law enforcement, Speer Gold Dot G2 offers the ultimate performance for self-defense thanks to an exclusive nose design. Hence, I tend to use Federal HST, Speer Gold Dot, Ranger Talons/PDX1 as EDC rounds I would ask others to try firing the otherwise well-conceived Critical Defense round through 2-4 of lumber to see if the nose also becomes clogged with soft would, preventing expansion entirely. However, not many would recommend spending the money unless you are a collector or a sucker for nostalgia. With that, I wanted to take the time to compliment you on one of the best written articles to have ever covered this topic. Speer Gold Dot is a fantastic round and another I havent tried but heard good things about it the Underwood/Lehigh ammunition. Anything that we do that appears to be overboard just gives the antis one more bullet to use against US! Despite this, the ammo maker did have avidsupporters until it recently closed its doors. The hollow point cavity dimensions and angles of the meplat were altered to enhance reliability of expansion, though the basic "reverse taper" design pioneered by the Black Talon was retained. Heckman covered McNeills paralyzed body with his own. This ammo was considered to be the most deadliest ammo ever made. Glock 30 Gold dot 200 gr +P / Critical Duty 220 gr +P / HST 230 gr +P This Lubalox coating was to protect the barrel rifling, and did not give the bullet armor-piercing capabilities. Billing its rounds as peace through pork, Jihawg gained media scrutiny for a very noveland some would say absurdaddition to what seem to be perfectly standard 9mm rounds. No one weapon will ever be enough in my mind. Sign In Why Join As a Dealer Dealer Login. Any idea on value??? I packed up my gear and left. If you were wearing a protective vest the best bullet you want to hit by is an expanding bullet so the material in the vest absorbs the energy. Time Magazine described the Black Talon rounds as a bullet "designed to unsheathe its claws once inside the victims body and tear it to pieces." Winchester Black Talon is arguably the most aggressive and most lethal hollow-point round ever designed due to the sharp petals that expand when it makes contact with the human body. I told them they could ooo and aaah at their own discretion as I collected the loose rounds. This is as close to a perfect Comprehensive Readers Digest version, in the 45 words or less format of the complete facts and points of interes as one could ask for! Mireles was hit in the left forearm, creating a severe wound. Regardless however after that day & event, we in south as Leos began changing from 38 revolvers to semi autos First to 9MM then eventually to 40 call semi with JHP rounds. Praesidus brings homage to the military watch tradition. There is a lot to be said for that kind of recommendation. Even if the attacker is only disoriented and not completely down, you have an immediate advantage. Not only does Jihawg guarantee that all of their ammunition meets or exceeds S.A.A.M.I. So, the point is, a shooter in a high stress defensive situation may not hit well, so any hit needs to count. Weve already featured a few hollow point rounds on this list, but in a general sense, all hollow point ammo is controversial. However, there are differences in the anatomy of the bullets which become apparent when carefully examined side by side. The ultimate demise of this round was the LE community nicknaming it Black Felon ammo. Officer Heckman does not remember Platt leaving the Grogan/Dove car. When the Black Talon expanded, it resembled talons, essentially creating a massive wound channel. 2023 The SOFREP Media Group. No, Black Talon rounds are not armor piercing. Elevation Talon 44 Bow Case Black 44 In. But the Kahr works best with the 200-grain Gold Dot; an ideal load for that gun. [8] (A claim disputed by the FBIs Medical Director, who stated that Grogans vision was not that bad.) Mireles fired four more rounds at Platt and Matix, but hit neither. It is a very devastating looking wound channel. The other Officer reluctantly did so. However, it was soon discovered that the bullets also had improved penetration against certain surfaces (like car doors and windows) because it decreased deflection. This ammunition line was renamed Fail Safe. Uninjured. It just makes one realize when your shift began you never knew what may happen. Ideally both! My hat is off to you. We reserve the right to edit as appropriate, delete profane, harassing, abusive and spam comments or posts, and block repeat offenders. . Join SOFREP for insider access and analysis. John Hanlon: Smith & Wesson Model 36 .38 Special revolver, 2-inch barrel, five rounds .38 Special +P fired. I think for defense most people use the 125 gr jhp or 158, something like that. Plus I saw rounds that had been recovered from a number of officer involved shootings. In all actuality, it was a special black coating with the purpose of preserving barrel life. PDX-1 looks the same on expansion as the BT, except now the claws are filled in with lead because PDX-1 is a bonded bullet, which is a superior design to the non-bonded BT. I shoot 10mm and .357Sig. They actually became friends in the Army. In the days after the round was released, reviewers and interested gun owners scrambled to get their hands on some of this expensive ammo, only to find that not only did it cost about $40 for a box of 20 rounds, it was also hard to find. Many in the firearms community noted the latter hollow point round is conspicuously similar to the Ranger T/ Black Talon, in response Winchester largely avoided the question, saying that despite obvious similarities the round was designed to "maximize performance based on the government specification set out in the request for proposal. The Black Talons petals look more like well talons, essentially making the wound channel even wider. Throwback Thursday: 5 Long-Slide Pistols I Can't Live Without, Full Feature: Anderson Manufacturing Kiger 9C Pro 9mm, The History Fixed and Adjustable Iron Sights, Throwback Thursday: All About Bullet Grain, Rifle Hack: Sighting for 100 Yards at a Distance of 25 Yards. [24], The shootout involved ten people: two suspects and eight FBI agents. It does excellent damage and comes with the Crow's Wings perk that launches a Heavy Attack projectile at enemies. +p+ was definitly the right direction. { I personally own 10 boxes of Winchester Black Talon in .45 ACP and 9mm.6 boxes of .38 Special and .357 Magnum.and 10 boxes of .44 Magnum. The result is extremely uniform expansion, better separation of the petals, and more consistent penetration across barrier types through full-size handguns. [18], Around this time, Metro-Dade police officers Rick Frye, Leonard Figueroa and Martin Heckman arrived. He thought our use of Ranger This round is an excellent choice for self-defense or home defense. He reportedly loaded his handgun with Black Talon rounds. The Black Talon handgun bullet (from the resemblance of the opened segments to the talons or claws of a bird of prey) is a jacketed hollow-point bullet with perforations designed to expose sharp edges upon expansion. Close range so we can retrieve the bullet. I have ?? was no expansion although you are correct that the body can keep going with a lot of punishment. [17] As Platt entered Grogan and Doves car, Mireles, able to use only one arm, fired the first of five rounds from his pump-action shotgun, wounding Platt in both feet. Black Talon 9mm Caliber Ammunition for sale. [8] Platt then pulled back from the window, giving Matix opportunity to fire. That D.A. Black Talon handgun ammo production was halted in 1993. Best Handguns for Detectives in Fiction | The Writer's Guide to Weapons. Winchester Ammunition 230 Grain Jacketed Hollow-Point (JHP) Ammo Details. Most completely ignore the second considerationhydrostatic or hydraulic shock. SIG's standout defensive handgun load is the Elite Performance blend with V-Crown bullet, available in 9mm, .40 S&W and .45 ACP, as well as others. Can you guess what it is? Winchester stopped producing the Black Talon round in 2000, and that kind of fed into its mythology and mystique. Manufacturer. Similar to the Black Talon, G2 courted controversyby designing a hollow point round that sent out eight sharp trocars upon expansion, allegedly inflicting much more damage than a conventional hollow point. Instead of a large hollow-point cavity, Gold Dot G2 has a shallow dish filled with a high-performance elastomer. After all, it is nothing more than slightly modernized Black Talon ammo, but with a market friendly sounding name. Glock 23 Gold dot 165 gr / HST 180 gr / Silver Tips 155 gr Buffalo Bore ammunition also loads this solid copper Barnes bullet in some of its calibers. That said, there are other rounds with armor-piercing attributes that are not covered by the law, such as teflon-coated bullets, or so-called cop-killers. These rounds are covered in a layer of polytetrafluoroethylene, which was initially added to reduce barrel wear. I still have 10mm Black Talons for my Glock 20 (Gen 1) and S&W model 1006. 1-1 1/2 of penetration the round is usually expanded to about .45+ with jagged petals that cut for about 12. Introduced officially in 1991, this hollow point round is especially famous for its unique-looking projectile. Platt then apparently positioned the Mini-14 against his shoulder using his uninjured left hand. This is simply a brilliant piece of work. Armor-piercing handgun ammunition has been banned in the United States since 1986, and unless you had some beforehand, you likely wont be shooting any AP 9x19mm rounds anytime soon. Critics alleged the ammunition caused unnecessary physical damage. At the time, Winchesters Black Talon was one of, if not the most effective hollow point duty round you could buy. On the more expensive side, the Cor-Bon solid copper DPX in any caliber is a also good self-defense round. "The Best Damn Gunshop in the World" 7626 Westheimer @ Voss, Houston, Texas 77063 BROWSE OUR New Arrivals! On expansion, the bullets unsheathed sharp talon claws that looked like a buzz saw. In December, Colin Ferguson killed six people and injured 19 more on a train in New York. William Matix: Smith & Wesson Model 3000 12-gauge shotgun, one round #6 shot fired. [1] I am currently waiting on the 40 S&W round to come out. I even had one work OK from a 2.5 bbl. Wish I could write this well! Matix was then shot in the right forearm, probably by Grogan. Your ammo is approx. If the round carries enough energy into the hit area (say, the lower side torso for example) the vascular system will experience massive compression leading to burst blood vessels in the brain. This ammo is packed in the original 20rd. There are still places, like New Jersey, where the ownership of hollow points isrestricted. Yeah, we cannot divulge that information publically. AgDaily, OutdoorHub All Rights Reserved Carbon Media Group Outdoors. A word of caution is that while this individual had dropped his weapon a fled a short distance I ordered the poor agonizing suspect hand cuffed. They dont really contribute very much to tissue damage. I had no idea I was sitting on a collectable round that now sells for close to $100 a box. Both of these are non-bonded, so they both have some jacket separation at the nose. The information provided here does not represent the views of Cheaper Than Dirt! For collecting, it might be alright. John Hall, FBI Firearms Training Unit Director at the time called the tragedy an ammo failure. The aftermath encouraged the FBI to seek new guns, more effective ammunition and set precedence for the FBIs protocol on ammunition evaluation and testing. The collision knocked off Grogans glasses, and there is speculation his vision was so bad that he was unable to see clearly enough to be effective. boxes. The Ranger SXT ammunition sold later by Winchester is very similar to the Black Talon though without the black Lubalox coating on the bullet. Hanlon lost his .357 Magnum service revolver during the initial collision, though he was still able to fight with his Smith & Wesson Model 36 backup gun. [10], Colin Ferguson used Black Talon ammunition for his Ruger P89 919mm pistol during a 1993 shooting incident. In fact, some sources say that as many as 400 police departments at some point or another carried Black Talon ammunition. 4/12/2023. I choose to carry Critical Duty in my G23 & 27. The after-action report of the shootout also set a new precedence for the protocol on ammunition evaluation and testing. You may have heard that it was produced with a Teflon coating but in all actuality, it was a special round coating focused on preserving barrel life. Time magazine described the Black Talon as a bullet designed to unsheathe its claws once inside the victims body and tear it to pieces. A surgeon in Houston said Black Talon explode inside a person like a thousand razor blades. The media called it exotic and designed to do greater damage than ordinary ammunition. Many politicians called for an outright ban on Black Talon ammunition. SIG V-Crown. Put it head to head with the Federal HST 124 grain in ballistic gel and against a Kevlar bulletproof panel!. Besides further dimensional changes to the hollow point for reliable expansion, the distinctive perpendicular petals were made longer yet more rounded at the tips to retain stiffness. If that is right, I would worry about muzzle blast ( it is designed for a longish barrel) and maybe over-penetration? It cuts through the organs of a human being.[18]. As a result, the FBI began the search for a more capable sidearm and more effective ammunition. Golden Sabers are on the list too. In fact, for the first two years, Black Talon was on the market it received an award from Shooting Industry magazine for its effective lethality. If you compress the blood vessels in the body enough, the blood ruptures vessels at the weakest point. Rapidly expanding projectiles help to ensure that all of the energy able to be summoned up by a pistol caliber will remain in its primary target. Additionally, the FlexLock core eliminates clogging, improves bullet expansion, and maximizes weight retention in regard to terminal ballistics. Im a proponent of all munitions that are topped wth Barns bullets. I have 2 full boxes that I would gladly sell. Wal-Marts in my area stock PDX-1 all the time. They never worry about what holster to buy as they have no intention of ever carrying that thing. It is as if they are just going through the motions, putting a check in a box on some fanciful list somewhere: Go to the store and get bread, eggs, paint the garage, buy a gun, wash the car . Minor injuries from shotgun pellets. Introduced officially in 1991, this hollow point round is especially famous for its unique-looking projectile. Required fields are marked *, Stay up to date with all things RE Factor Tactical with updates sent directly to your inbox, Why The FBI Requested Better Duty Ammunition, Available at Kentucky Gun Company for $31.77/box, Available at Kentucky Gun Company for $31.53/box, Available at Kentucky Gun Company for $34.99/box, Available at Kentucky Gun Company for $30.88/box, REMINGTON AMMO 9mm Golden Saber Bonded BJHP Bonded 124Gr, HORNADY 9mm +P Luger 124 gr FlexLock Critical Duty, FEDERAL AMMO 9mm + P 124Gr HST JHP Premium, HORNADY CRITICAL DUTY 9MM +P 135 GRAIN FLEXLOCK DUTY, https://www.amazon.com/shop/refactortactical, Battle of the Barrels: Faxon vs Ballistic Advantage, Spotting Scope vs Binoculars: Choosing The Right Glass, Faxon Glock 48 Barrels: Are They Worth the Investment? A large mechanical jacket-to-core InterLock band works to keep the bullet and core from separating for maximum weight retention, while the Flex Tip eliminates clogging and aids bullet expansion. AllOutdoor // I believe that strong 10mm ammo (not the watered down stuff) can solve this problem. On internet forums, gun enthusiasts frequently joke that that SXT stands for "Same eXact Thing",[13] though the official branding is Supreme eXpansion Technology. The fifth hit Matix in the face, penetrated the jaw bone and neck and came to rest by the spinal column. If you are as clueless as I was, the Black Talon is a self-defense round manufactured by Winchester in the early 90s. Grogan and Dove were kneeling alongside the drivers side of their car. Its specially designed hollow point wont plug while passing through a variety of barriers, and the bullet jacket and core hold together to provide nearly 100 percent weight retention through even the toughest materials. In addition, some recommend the Federal HST. [3] Though widely misreported to be Teflon, molybdenum disulfide, or wax, the ammo has an unusual black appearance compared to other copper-jacketed or lead bullets. I remember when we moved from 38 to 9mm then 40 caliber everything revolved around this in round choice then the old group so wrapped up in collateral damage from over penetration that we always wound up with under powered ammo such as the Black Talon later renamed Ranger I guess. Of the eight agents at the scene, two had Ithaca Model 37 shotguns in their vehicles (McNeill and Mireles), three were armed with semi-automatic Smith & Wesson Model 459 9mm pistols (Dove, Grogan, and Risner), and the rest were armed with Smith & Wesson revolvers. Both were preoccupied with getting Doves gun working and did not detect that Platt was aggressively advancing upon them. Do you still have these boxes? Youll likely not hear this directly from Remington, but the Golden Saber round is designed to expand very similarly to the Black Talon. On impact, the Black Talon bullet expands and peels back, exposing sharp, curling metal talons that can strike more organs and arteries in the body. Not true. The autopsy found Platts right lung had collapsed and his chest cavity contained 1.3 liters of blood, suggesting damage to the main blood vessels of the right lung. Michael Platt: Ruger Mini-14 .223 Remington with folding stock, at least 42 rounds fired, S&W M586 .357 Magnum revolver, three rounds fired, Dan Wesson .357 Magnum revolver, three rounds fired. Two high-profile mass shootings in 1993 led to the Black Talons demise. Even the old snub nosed 38 with plus P ammo would shoot through a persons torso at close range. The reverse taper refers to the bullets jacket being thicker at the tip than at the base. Following the Long Island Railroad Mass Murder in 1993, Black Talon ammunition attained notoriety in the media and with the anti-gun lobby. Barrett is the world leader in long-range, large-caliber, precision rifle design and manufacturing. Before that Matix had already served in the Marines, then went Army. Everyone there was shooting 9mm or 38 SPL/357 magnums. Black Talon has a black bullet with six serrations at the nose seated on a shiny nickel-plated cartridge.The round is a traditional hollow point bullet, but with a then-innovative "reverse taper" (the bullet jacket is thicker at the tip than at the base) and a Lubaloxnot Tefloncoating. Platt also served with the the Rangers in Nam where he gained his combat experience. Every time I see reference to that shootout it takes me back to that day. I second and add my own thumbs up to G-Mans comments in praise of this article by Suzanne. America's Ultimate Shooting Sports Discounter, Black Talon and Todays Best Self-Defense Ammo, Click to share on Facebook (Opens in new window), Click to share on Twitter (Opens in new window), Click to share on Pinterest (Opens in new window). While its black color and petal-like constructiongave it a very distinctive look, the rounds performance was roughly on par with other hollow points. (877) 214-9327 info@collectorsfirearms.com Products by Category Browse the ARCHIVES! Test results are generally given in terms of expanded diameter, penetration depth, and weight retention. Black Talon, a type of expanding, hollow-point ammunition also vilified in the early 1990s as "cop-killer bullets". In March 2014, The Guardian newspaper reported that South African paralympic athlete Oscar Pistorius had shot to death his girlfriend Reeva Steenkamp on Valentine's Day the previous year with four Black Talons fired from a 9mm pistol. Winchester discontinued the Black Talon line completely in 2000. I'm the knife nut that everybody is ashamed to know. This ammo has not been manufactured for many years. Gun #: 963524304 Seller: GunFactory ( FFL) $219.99 Full Details 1 Image (s) Radian Talon Safety Selector - 4-lever Black For Ar15 Gun #: 969752348 Seller: GunFactory ( FFL) $93.49 Full Details The Mission of Cheaper Than Dirt! Although not available anymore, you can get comparable performance, if not better, out of the above alternatives. They make them in many different calibers and seeing what they do in a block of gel is amazing. Find your best price for handgun Ammo black talon | Best handgun Ammunition black talon - AmmoSeek.com Search Engine 2023 As Platt climbed out of the passenger side car window, one of Doves 9 mm rounds hit his right upper arm and went on to penetrate his chest, stopping an inch away from his heart. Black Talon, though innovative and groundbreaking back in the day, is nearly 25 years old. The most interesting thing about Black Talon rounds is that they are still used today by ######. [16][22], Platt attempted to start the Grogan/Dove car. Yes. Killed by a .223 gunshot wound to the chest. In 2009, Winchester-Olin released a new hollow point bullet in its Supreme Elite line of handgun ammunition called the Bonded PDX1. The rifle version did not share the handgun bullet's barbed petal design and was basically a solid copper hollow-point with a hollowed out rear shank containing a lead core in a steel liner to prevent jacket rupture thus maintaining necessary penetration in tough game. Glock 21 Hornady XTP 230 gr +P / Ranger 230 +P. 0. When firing at someone firing back rest assured you want everything to end quick or sooner or later you will catch a round. I have a box of sxt, but chose the bonded version for performance through auto glass. Anything on that list should do the trick. The round is a traditional hollow point bullet, but with a then-innovative reverse taper (the bullet jacket is thicker at the tip than at the base) and a Lubaloxnot Tefloncoating. Physician Boyd Stevens, the San Francisco Medical Examiner who performed the autopsies, later reported at the 1994 International Wound Ballistics Association's conference in Sacramento that the wound trauma caused by Black Talons was unremarkable and that all victims died due to penetration of a vital structure.[6].
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